Mandrakes

[Buzzard]

~{Gen.30:12}~
14 And Reuben went
in the days of wheat harvest,
and found mandrakes {#1736} in the field,
#1736
doo-dah’-ee; from {#1731;} a boiler or basket;
also the mandrake (as aphrodisiac):— basket, mandrake.
++++++++

1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation

#1731;
dode; from an unused root mean. prop. to boil, i.e. (fig.) to love;
by impl. a love-token,
+++++++++++++++

as aphrodisiac
Any of various forms of stimulation thought to arouse sexual excitement.

They may be psychophysiological (arousing the senses of sight, touch, smell, or hearing) or internal (e.g., foods, alcoholic drinks, drugs, love potions, medicinal preparations). Most foods traditionally believed to be aphrodisiacs have no chemical components that would have such an effect. In some cases, their reputation may be based on a supposed resemblance to genitalia (e.g., ginseng root, rhinoceros horn). Drugs such as alcohol or marijuana may lead to sexual excitation by lessening the user's inhibitions. Few medical studies have been conducted; the only substances medically recognized as aphrodisiacs are extremelyhazardous to the health.
© 2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

as aphrodisiac
aphrodisiac
\Aph`ro*dis"i*ac\, n. That which (as a drug, or some kinds of food) excites to venery.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aphrodisiac
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
and brought them unto his mother Leah.
Then Rachel said to Leah,

Give me, I pray thee, of thy son’s mandrakes.

15 And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband?
and wouldest thou take away my son’s mandrakes also?
And Rachel said,Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son’s mandrakes.
16 And Jacob came out of the field in the evening,
and Leah went out to meet him,
and said,Thou must come in unto me;
for surely I have hired thee with my son’s mandrakes.
And he lay with her that night.


Ok, Guys;
help me out here, what was it Reuben found
14 And Reuben went
in the days of wheat harvest,
and found mandrakes {#1736} in the field,


Buzz:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Zubby Replys

http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5813#post5813
Originally posted by Zerubbabel ;

Ok Buzz,

You're gonna make me think in a place I haven't thunk before,
but,

I'll give it a go....
quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by buzz;

1736
doo-dah’-ee; from {#1731;} a boiler or basket;
also the mandrake (as aphrodisiac):— basket, mandrake.
1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation

1731
dode; from an unused root mean. prop. to boil, i.e. (fig.) to love;
by impl. a love-token, lover, friend;
spec. an uncle:— (well-) beloved, father’s brother, love, uncle.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ok,
An aphrodisiac for sure.

Look here:

Jeremiah 24

*The two prophecies*

1 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets (1736) of figs were set before the temple of the LORD,
**Two aphrodesiac figs**
after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.
2 One basket(1731) had very good figs,
even like the figs that are first ripe:
**Sounds like first fruits**
and the other basket(1731) had very naughty figs,
which could not be eaten,
they were so bad.

Another prophecy of naughty figs:

Matthew 21

*The naughty fig withers*

18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

Return to:

Jeremiah 24
3 Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

The fig viewpoint:

Mark 13
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

Return to:

Jeremiah 24

*The good fig*

4 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.
7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

*the evil fig*

8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:
9 And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.
10 And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.


The fruit of the figs:

Genesis 30
1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?



Genesis 30

*The days of harvest*

14 And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes(1736) in the field,
and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes.(1736)


John the Baptist speaks to the Pharasse and Saduccees about the wheat harvest:

Matthew 3
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

Back to:

Genesis 30

*The hiring*

15 And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest thou take away my son's mandrakes(1736) also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes.(1736)
16 And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes.(1736) And he lay with her that night.


The good fig bought and paid for.




Zerubbabel

Have to do this in two {2} post
10,000 character limit

[Buzzard]

Zubby,
I moved this to a thread of its own,
I wasn't too concerned with "The Baskets"
more so what was in the Baskets

it says
"love Apples"
1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation

I Have seen a lot of "Road Apples" on these Boards,
and a lot of posters eating them
~{Rev.6:7}~
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal,
I heard the voice of the fourth beast say,
Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse:
and his name that sat on him was Death,
and
Hell followed with him.
.
----Da Gate of Hell----

~{Matt.16:18}~
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him,
Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;
and
the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,
to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death,
and with the beasts of the earth.
.
-----Death and Hell-----
~{Isaiah 28:15}~
15 Because ye have said,
We have made a covenant with death,
and
with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
.
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
~{Isaiah 30:12}~
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel,
Because ye despise this word,
and trust in
oppression and perverseness,
and stay thereon:

13 Therefore this iniquity shall be
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I wasn't too concerned with "The Baskets"
more so what was in the Baskets,

after we come to some sort of understanding
as to what the "Mandrakes are,
or represent,
we can add it to the 1st post

My Question now would be,
How are Figs used so they are
1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation


God Bless Your "Bible" Studies;
Buzz:

[Zerubbabel]

Well Buzz,


I guess I didn't explain myself very well.

I noticed that the word for "baskets" in Jeremiah was the same word for "mandrakes" in Genesis.

If you see that then the script reads something like this:

One good aphrodesiac fig and one bad aphrodesiac fig.

The good would be those who love the Lord in truth.

The bad would be those who love the traditions and precepts of men.

Remember how many times the scriptures warn about those who go away from the truth as a harlot.

Paid for love, whipped into a frenzy.

However the good fig was also paid for.


But Christ paid the ultimate price for the redemption,

So we can be "married" to Him and bring forth fruits.


But I will give it more thought.





-Z.

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by Zerubbabel
Well Buzz,

{snip]

But I will give it more thought.


-Z.

Me too,
:think:
-----

:confused:
---------------

:shrug:

confusing one;
Huh????

God Bless;
Buzz:

[Buzzard]

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/mandrakes.html


Mandrakes
Hebrew: dudaim; i.e., "love-plants"

occurs only in Gen. 30:14-16 and Song of Songs 7:13

Many interpretations have been given of this word dudaim. It has been rendered "violets," "Lilies," "jasmines," "truffles or mushrooms," "flowers," the "citron," etc. The weight of authority is in favor of its being regarded as the Mandragora officinalis of botanists, "a near relative of the night-shades, the 'apple of Sodom' and the potato plant." It possesses stimulating and narcotic properties (Gen. 30:14-16). The fruit of this plant resembles the potato-apple in size, and is of a pale orange color. It has been called the "love-apple." The Arabs call it "Satan's apple." It still grows near Jerusalem, and in other parts of Palestine.

[Buzzard]

aphrodisiac
Any of various forms of stimulation thought to arouse sexual excitement.
It possesses stimulating and narcotic properties (Gen. 30:14-16).
aphrodisiac

\Aph`ro*dis"i*ac\, n. That which (as a drug, or some kinds of food) excites to venery.

aphrodisiac

\Aph`ro*dis"i*ac\, Aphrodisiacal\Aph`ro*di*si"a*cal\, a. [Gr. ? pertaining to sensual love, fr. ?. See Aphrodite.] Exciting venereal desire; provocative to venery.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


:eek:
Mandrakes=artificial love.

True love needs no aphrodesiac doctrine.
Think on that.

G.B

Mike

{Smillies by Buzz:}
:think:
------------

:doh:

DaB-Glum Zubby,
you just gutted 90%, of the teachings of
:banana:
Da Jo-Jo's of Da Choich

Buzz:

[Zerubbabel]

True love:


Song of Solomon 7
6 How fair and how pleasant art thou, O love, for delights!
7 This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.

Solomon has a love here. A true love.

8 I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples;
9 And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak.

There is the wine (blood) and the asleep awakening and speaking.

10 I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.

His desire. Solomon is comparing the love of the Lord to a beautiful maiden who is true.

11 Come, my beloved, let us go forth into the field; let us lodge in the villages.
12 Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see if the vine flourish, whether the tender grape appear, and the pomegranates bud forth: there will I give thee my loves.
13 The mandrakes give a smell,
Uh oh. There's those stinky old mandrakes again. Don't need no stimulant when your eye is on Him in truth and love.
and
at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits, new and old, which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved.

Sounds like a banquet...

Maybe even a wedding feast??

Don't need no jabbering gibberish there.

No man made doctrine allowed.

Only those who follow this in truth:


Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.



Zerubbabel

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by Buzzard
quoting Zubby
{The one on the left}
:D
------------------------------------------------
Mandrakes=artificial love.

True love needs no aphrodesiac doctrine.
Think on that.

G.B

Mike

{Smillies by Buzz:}

Originally posted by Buzzard
:think:
------------

:doh:

DaB-Glum Zubby,
you just gutted 90%, of the teachings of
:banana:
Da Jo-Jo's of Da Choich

Buzz:
Originally posted by Zubby
{The one on the left}
--------------------------------------------------------

Don't need no jabbering gibberish there.

No man made doctrine allowed.

Only those who follow this in truth:


Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Ohhh Kayyyyy;
are we in agreement?
Mandrakes are something that
possesses stimulating and narcotic properties (Gen. 30:14-16).
-----------
That
----------
excites to venery.

ie:
Indulgence in or pursuit of sexual activity.
The act of sexual intercourse.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=venery.




In other words,

A love / commitment / service / presumption / religion / love;
based on exitement, emotion, carnal desires, ritual, traditions,
ect. ect. ect.

based on or supported by
"Cunningly devised fables"
~{Matt.7:26}~
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine,
and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a foolish man,
which built his house upon the sand:
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.



Buzz:

[Zerubbabel]

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

1 Samuel 12:24
Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you.

1 Chronicles 16:10
Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.

Psalm 18:1
I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Psalm 40:16
Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.

Psalm 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

Song of Solomon 1:15
Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes.

Song of Solomon 2:3
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

Song of Solomon 4:7
Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.

Song of Solomon 2:4
He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love.

Psalm 11:7
For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

2 Samuel 7:21
For thy word's sake, and according to thine own heart, hast thou done all these great things, to make thy servant know them.

Psalm 119:140
Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Deuteronomy 10:12
And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

Zephaniah 3:17
The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

1 Chronicles 29:17
I know also, my God, that thou triest the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness. As for me, in the uprightness of mine heart I have willingly offered all these things: and now have I seen with joy thy people, which are present here, to offer willingly unto thee.




Zerubbabel

[Zerubbabel]

Originally posted by Buzzard
Ohhh Kayyyyy;
are we in agreement?

Buzz:



Yep.


:agree:


-Z.

[Zerubbabel]

Also Buzz,

Notice who bought
The mandrakes:

Genesis 30
14 And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes.


Rachel bought them.

Remember the 10 virgins?
What was told to the ones who were short of oil?

Matthew 25
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish (Rachel) said unto the wise, (Leah) Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


Rachel does this:

Genesis 31
19 And Laban went to shear his sheep: and Rachel had stolen the images that were her father's.

Stole the false gods.

Remember this is said about Rachel:

Genesis 29
17 Leah was tender eyed; but Rachel was beautiful and well favoured.

Pleasing to the eye.
(Sound like perhaps the ear ticklers in todays pulpits?)

Leah is tender eyed- i.e.- hard on the eyes.
The truth is never popular in today's biblically illiterate pews.

However Rachel's handmaid has a child for her, i.e. in her stead.

Genesis 30
6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

Dan = God has judged.

The children of Dan did this:

Judges 18
16 And the six hundred men appointed with their weapons of war, which were of the children of Dan, stood by the entering of the gate.
17 And the five men that went to spy out the land went up, and came in thither, and took the graven image, and the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image: and the priest stood in the entering of the gate with the six hundred men that were appointed with weapons of war.
18 And these went into Micah's house, and fetched the carved image, the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image. Then said the priest unto them, What do ye?

Stole the images.

Remember Dan is not listed as one of the tribes sealed in Rev 7.

So then what is Rachel's fate as she stole the images?

Genesis 31
31 And Jacob answered and said to Laban, Because I was afraid: for I said, Peradventure thou wouldest take by force thy daughters from me.
32 With whomsoever thou findest thy gods, let him not live: before our brethren discern thou what is thine with me, and take it to thee. For Jacob knew not that Rachel had stolen them.

However Rachel hid them and they were not found.

But God knew about them....

Genesis 35
16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

Benoni = Son of my sorrow.
Benjamin = Son of my right hand.


Are we too far off the beaten track yet??



Zerubbabel

[countryroad]

by Z

Rachel does this:

Genesis 31
19 And Laban went to shear his sheep: and Rachel had stolen the images that were her father's.

Stole the false gods.



Hmmm, double Hmmm,


34. Now Rachel had taken the images, and put them in the camel's furniture, and sat upon them. And Laban searched all the tent, but found them not.
35. And she said to her father, Let it not displease my lord that I cannot rise up before thee; for the custom of women is upon me. And he searched but found not the images.


Camels' furniture

Custom of women

That does present a picture similar to the one in the book of Revelation.

Remember the beast is scarlet colored. Which I have always thought to mean unfruitful.




by Z


The mandrakes








Rev.9: 21. Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.



Sorceries:

Strong's Ref. # 5331

Romanized pharmakeia
Pronounced far-mak-i'-ah

from GSN5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):

KJV--sorcery, witchcraft.


Well, I guess that love apples are a big business these days.



Take it for what it's worth.......I'm not making a doctrinal statement, just want to add another thought to the discussion.



;)


Question: What eventually happens to the images?

[Buzzard]

by Z

Rachel does this:

Genesis 31
19 And Laban went to shear his sheep:
and Rachel had stolen the images that were her father's.

Stole the false gods.

OK, Guys;
Good points, and well taken,
but we may be getting ahead of ourselves here

::::::Question::::::
What would
:banana:
"Shearing the Sheep"
and
:devil:
"Idols" = Idolatry
have in common

:think:
------
:doh:
------
:eek:

And as Newman so elegantly put it


John Henry Newman


"The phenomenon, admitted on all hands, is this:
That great portion of what is generally received as Christian truth is,
in its rudiments or in its separate parts,
to be found in heathen philosophies and religions.
For instance, the doctrine of a Trinity is found both in the East and in the West;
so is the ceremony of washing; so is the rite of sacrifice.

The doctrine of the Divine Word is Platonic;
the doctrine of the Incarnation is Indian;
of a divine kingdom is Judaic;
of Angels and demons is Magian;
the connexion of sin with the body is Gnostic;
celibacy is known to Bonze and Talapoin;
a sacerdotal order is Egyptian;
the idea of a new birth is Chinese and Eleusinian;
:eek:
belief in sacramental virtue is Pythagorean;
and honours to the dead are a polytheism.
Such is the general nature of the fact before us;

Mr. Milman argues from it,—
These things are in heathenism, therefore they are not Christian:'
we, on the contrary, prefer to say,
'these things are in Christianity, therefore they are not heathen.'

That is, we prefer to say,
and we think that Scripture bears us out in saying,
that from the beginning the Moral Governor of the world
has scattered the seeds of truth far and wide over its extent;
that these have variously taken root,
and grown as in the wilderness, wild plants indeed but living;
and hence that, as the inferior animals have tokens of an immaterial {381} principle in them,
yet have not souls, so the philosophies and religions of men have their life in certain true ideas,
though they are not directly divine.
What man is amid the brute creation,
such is the Church among the schools of the world;
and as Adam gave names to the animals about him,
so has the Church from the first looked round upon the earth,
noting and visiting the doctrines she found there.

She began in Chaldea, and then sojourned among the Canannites,
and went down into Egypt, and thence passed into Arabia,
till she rested in her own land.
Next she encountered the merchants of Tyre,
and the wisdom of the East country,
and the luxury of Sheba.
Then she was carried away to Babylon,
and wandered to the schools of Greece.
And wherever she went, in trouble or in triumph, still she was a living spirit,
the mind and voice of the Most High;
'sitting in the midst of the doctors,
:eek:
both hearing them and asking them questions;'
claiming to herself what they said rightly,
correcting their errors, supplying their defects,
completing their beginnings,
expanding their surmises, and thus gradually
by means of them enlarging the range and
refining the sense of her own teaching.

So far then from her creed being of doubtful credit because it resembles foreign theologies,
we even hold that one special way in which Providence
has imparted divine knowledge to us has been by enabling her
to draw and collect it together out of the world,
and, in this sense, as in others,
to 'suck the milk of the Gentiles and to suck the breast of kings.'

John Henry Newman




Buzz:

[countryroad]

by Buzz
What would

"Shearing the Sheep"
and

"Idols" = Idolatry
have in common




by Z

But Christ paid the ultimate price for the redemption,

So we can be "married" to Him and bring forth fruits.




I agree, very much so.

Rom.7:4:Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


So spiritual union with the Lord brings forth fruit. A union in his death and resurrection ...... a baptisim into the body of Christ.


So how would spiritual adultery be defined?

My first idea is allowing someone else take the place in our heart that belongs to the Lord alone. He always has first place. His throne is in our heart, and our body is his temple. His throne is in the sanctuary. He has cleansed us with his own blood, and made us a suitable dwelling place. The Devil hates that and wants to tempt Christians to allow idols to be set up in the heart ...... with the ultimate aim of having the enemy himself sit on the throne instead of God. The enemy is the usurper ..... his real goal isn't the world, it's the elect. His real goal is the kingdom of God.





20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


The enemy wants the kingdom of God that is within you. He wants to take the place of Christ, for it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory." If he can usurp that, then he can rob the elect of their hope.


19. Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20. Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


Our hope is like a cord of love that joins us to the Lord within the veil. The enemy wants to sever that three fold cord. The Spirit, the water, and the blood.



4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.



11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

[Buzzard]

Ok kid,
Sorceries:

Strong's Ref. # 5331

Romanized pharmakeia
Pronounced far-mak-i'-ah

from GSN5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):

KJV--sorcery, witchcraft.


My question now would be
Just how does
"sorcery, witchcraft"
Work "to control the mind" of those under its spell;

#1736
doo-dah’-ee; from {#1731;} a boiler or basket;
also the mandrake (as aphrodisiac):— basket, mandrake.
++++++++

1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation

#1731;
dode; from an unused root mean. prop. to boil,
i.e. (fig.) to love; by impl. a love-token,
+++++++++++++++

as aphrodisiac
Any of various forms of stimulation thought to arouse sexual excitement.

They may be psychophysiological
ie:
The branch of physiology dealing with the relationship between physiological processes and thoughts, emotions, and behavior.
-------------------------.
The process of inducing or entering sleep or a hypnotic state.


(arousing the senses of sight, touch, smell, or hearing)
or internal (e.g., foods, alcoholic drinks, drugs, love potions, medicinal preparations). Most foods traditionally believed to be aphrodisiacs have no chemical components that would have such an effect. In some cases, their reputation may be based on a supposed resemblance to genitalia (e.g., ginseng root, rhinoceros horn). Drugs such as alcohol or marijuana may lead to sexual excitation by lessening the user's inhibitions. Few medical studies have been conducted; the only substances medically recognized as aphrodisiacs are extremely hazardous to the health.
© 2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

as aphrodisiac
aphrodisiac
\Aph`ro*dis"i*ac\, n. That which (as a drug, or some kinds of food)
excites to venery.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aphrodisiac





Buzz:

[Buzzard]

http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6417#post6417

Originally posted by Zerubbabel
Also Buzz,

--{snip}--

Benoni = Son of my sorrow.
Benjamin = Son of my right hand.


Are we too far off the beaten track yet??



Zerubbabel

Nope,

But then,
I'm still back here

http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5813#post5813

argueing with Zophar over
Jeremiah 24 and the price of Figs

Buzz:

[Zerubbabel]

Just tell ole Zophar the raptures a coming.

He'll probably sell you everything he's got dirt cheap.

i.e.

Millerite movement.


But then Bildad would nay-say,

And Eliphaz would reach for the checkbook.


If it takes too long,
Elihu would show up and claim to be the righteous judge of "fig prices."



-Z.

[Buzzard]

Prophecy > To Buzzard...



http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5403#post5403
Originally posted by nats
Jude

4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude

11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

I think that fits.

stan.
~{2Peter 2.1}~
But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,

and

~{2Kings4:38}~
38 And Elisha came again to Gilgal:
and there was a dearth in the land;
and the sons of the prophets were sitting before him:
and he said unto his servant,
Set on the great pot,
and seethe pottage for the sons of the prophets.
39 And one went out into the field to gather herbs,
and found a wild vine,
and gathered thereof wild gourds his lap full,
and came and shred them into the pot of pottage:
for they knew them not.
40 So they poured out for the men to eat.
And it came to pass, as they were eating of the pottage,
that they cried out, and said,
O thou man of God,
there is death in the pot.
And they could not eat thereof.
41 But he said,
Then bring meal. And he cast it into the pot; and he said, Pour out for the people, that they may eat.
And there was no harm in the pot.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

God Bless Your "Bible" Studies;
Buzz:

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by Zerubbabel



If it takes too long,
Elihu would show up and claim to be the righteous judge of "fig prices."



-Z.

That ain't funny
:D

that or "Da Judge" of "Da Figs"

Buzz:

[Zerubbabel]

Hey Buzz,

Need to bend the ole cranium a bit...


Back when we was a thinkin on this subject,
I went to my weekly study group to pour over the books.

There is two guys there I know to be profecient in their studies,
More so than me.

I went there with the plan to get one a thinking about the mandrakes,
When the other one was there, hadn't been there in a while.
I was surprised to see him.

Well anyhoot,
It seems that all three of us were working on the mandrakes, and had all desired to share with the others of the group.

I thought that was kinda strange that we were all thinking on mandrakes at the same time, none of us had any contact with the othes throughout the week.

So fast forward to now,

I was watching a tv show the other day on the crucifixion of Christ.
There were some talking about how he didn't really die and so on.

You know the baloney.

However,
The arguement used was that the sponge of vinegar used had some
"mandrake oil" snuck in.

Said it made it appear you were dead when you weren't.

Made my ears prick up for sure.

Now I believe He was crucified, and died on the cross, and raised Himself up as the scriptures show.

But this was a whole new angle on mandrakes I hadn't even considered.

Now with all of us looking at it at the same time,
I decided it must be fairly important.


Do you think something like this is gonna come up and gain strength,
or what is the importance of it that I am completely walking over?

The fellas and I had all came to the same conclusion,
fake love.

We had really nothing different to share with each other,

But I can't help but feel we are all missing something even bigger.


Thoughts?


-Z.

[countryroad]

Hi Z,

My thoughts are that the mandrakes were less about the pleasure of intercourse and more about the desire of the barren woman to bear fruit and to present her husband with a son. Rachel was greatly loved by Jacob, yet she was barren.

There seems to be a theme in the Word about the barren woman.

How many wives found themselves to be in that circumstance?

Sarah. Rachel. Hannah. John the baptist's mother. Many more, I think.

There is a passage from Isaiah 54 that is quoted again in Galatians 4 ....... Rejoice O barren woman ......because....many more are the children of the desolate woman than of the woman that has a husband.

Which begs the question ........ what is true success ....... or what is true fruitfulness?

There are many that esteem themselves to be fruitful ....... it even amounts to be a boast or a way to make comparisons and to rank Christians.

Is fruitfulness a mega church?


;)


"Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

"Fear not little flock, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."

[Zerubbabel]

I agree completely.



Kid,

There is a study going on over on another forum about the tree of life.

Somehow some of the mandrake stuff crept in.

Also someone had brought over one of your posts that she had liked from here.

Please feel welcome to come over and join it.

link:

http://www.gokarters.com/testvbforum/showthread.php?t=163&page=1&pp=15


-Mike

[Buzzard]

Hey Buzz,

Need to bend the ole cranium a bit...


Back when we was a thinkin on this subject,
I went to my weekly study group to pour over the books.

There is two guys there I know to be profecient in their studies,
More so than me.

I went there with the plan to get one a thinking about the mandrakes,
When the other one was there, hadn't been there in a while.
I was surprised to see him.

Well anyhoot,
It seems that all three of us were working on the mandrakes, and had all desired to share with the others of the group.

I thought that was kinda strange that we were all thinking on mandrakes at the same time, none of us had any contact with the othes throughout the week.

So fast forward to now,

I was watching a tv show the other day on the crucifixion of Christ.
There were some talking about how he didn't really die and so on.

You know the baloney.

However,
The arguement used was that the sponge of vinegar used had some
"mandrake oil" snuck in.

Said it made it appear you were dead when you weren't.

Made my ears prick up for sure.

Now I believe He was crucified, and died on the cross, and raised Himself up as the scriptures show.

But this was a whole new angle on mandrakes I hadn't even considered.

Now with all of us looking at it at the same time,
I decided it must be fairly important.


Do you think something like this is gonna come up and gain strength,
or what is the importance of it that I am completely walking over?

The fellas and I had all came to the same conclusion,
fake love.

We had really nothing different to share with each other,

But I can't help but feel we are all missing something even bigger.


Thoughts?


-Z.
But I can't help but feel we are all missing something even bigger.


Me too Zubby; me too

Mandrakes are something that somehow excites the Carnal fallen nature of man into a "false" love, commitment, desire
it also induces "Sleep" or something akin to just "Lukewarm"
attitude Sorceries:

Strong's Ref. # 5331

Romanized pharmakeia
Pronounced far-mak-i'-ah

from GSN5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):

KJV--sorcery, witchcraft.

Sorceries:

Strong's Ref. # 5331

Romanized pharmakeia
Pronounced far-mak-i'-ah

from GSN5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):

KJV--sorcery, witchcraft.


My question now would be
Just how does
"sorcery, witchcraft"
Work "to control the mind" of those under its spell;

#1736
doo-dah’-ee; from {#1731;} a boiler or basket;
also the mandrake (as aphrodisiac):— basket, mandrake.
++++++++

1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation

#1731;
dode; from an unused root mean. prop. to boil,
i.e. (fig.) to love; by impl. a love-token,
+++++++++++++++

as aphrodisiac
Any of various forms of stimulation thought to arouse sexual excitement.

They may be psychophysiological
ie:
The branch of physiology dealing with the relationship between physiological processes and thoughts, emotions, and behavior.
-------------------------.
The process of inducing or entering sleep or a hypnotic state.


(arousing the senses of sight, touch, smell, or hearing)
or internal (e.g., foods, alcoholic drinks, drugs, love potions, medicinal preparations). Most foods traditionally believed to be aphrodisiacs have no chemical components that would have such an effect. In some cases, their reputation may be based on a supposed resemblance to genitalia (e.g., ginseng root, rhinoceros horn). Drugs such as alcohol or marijuana may lead to sexual excitation by lessening the user's inhibitions. Few medical studies have been conducted; the only substances medically recognized as aphrodisiacs are extremely hazardous to the health.
© 2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

as aphrodisiac
aphrodisiac
\Aph`ro*dis"i*ac\, n. That which (as a drug, or some kinds of food)
excites to venery.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aphrodisiac



Strong's Ref. # 5331

Romanized pharmakeia
Pronounced far-mak-i'-ah

~{Rev.18:23}~
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee;
and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:
for thy merchants were the great men of the earth;
for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.So a "Mandrake has to be something
that induces a False state of security
based on the
sorceries were all nations deceived.

which leads me back to this13 The mandrakes "give a smell",
~{Song of Solomon 7:10}~
I am my beloved’s, and his desire is toward me.
11 Come, my beloved, let us go forth into the field;
let us lodge in the villages.
12 Let us get up early to the vineyards;
Time to inspect the Fruits
let us see if the vine flourish, whether the tender grape appear,
and the pomegranates bud forth:
there will I give thee my loves.

13 The mandrakes "give a smell",
and {but} at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits,
new and old,
which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved.

{but} at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits,
new and old,
which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved.

~{Matt.13:51}~
51 Jesus saith unto them,
Have ye understood all these things?

They say unto him,
Yea, Lord.

52 Then said he unto them,
Therefore
every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven
is like unto a man that is an householder,
which bringeth forth out of his treasure things
new and old,
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest;
to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity,
they allure through
--{Mandrakes}--
the lusts of the flesh
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.[/quote]

[Buzzard]

~{Romans 15:4}~
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,


~{Gal.4:22}~
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory:

1 : the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence;
also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression
2 : a symbolic representation


~{Gen.30:12}~
14 And Reuben went
in the days of wheat harvest,
and found mandrakes {#1736} in the field,

#1736
doo-dah’-ee; from {#1731;} a boiler or basket;
also the mandrake (as aphrodisiac):— basket, mandrake.
++++++++

1) mandrake, love-apple
1a) as exciting sexual desire, and favouring procreation

#1731;
dode; from an unused root mean. prop. to boil, i.e. (fig.) to love;
by impl. a love-token,
+++++++++++++++

as aphrodisiac
Any of various forms of stimulation thought to arouse sexual excitement.

They may be psychophysiological (arousing the senses of sight, touch, smell, or hearing) or internal (e.g., foods, alcoholic drinks, drugs, love potions, medicinal preparations). Most foods traditionally believed to be aphrodisiacs have no chemical components that would have such an effect. In some cases, their reputation may be based on a supposed resemblance to genitalia (e.g., ginseng root, rhinoceros horn). Drugs such as alcohol or marijuana may lead to sexual excitation by lessening the user's inhibitions. Few medical studies have been conducted; the only substances medically recognized as aphrodisiacs are extremelyhazardous to the health.
© 2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

as aphrodisiac
aphrodisiac
\Aph`ro*dis"i*ac\, n. That which (as a drug, or some kinds of food) excites to venery.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aphrodisiac
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
and brought them unto his mother Leah.
Then Rachel said to Leah,

Give me, I pray thee, of thy son’s mandrakes.

15 And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband?
and wouldest thou take away my son’s mandrakes also?
And Rachel said,Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son’s mandrakes.
16 And Jacob came out of the field in the evening,
and Leah went out to meet him,
and said,Thou must come in unto me;
for surely I have hired thee with my son’s mandrakes.
And he lay with her that night.


Ok, Guys;
The question now should be

:confused:
Who was Reuben
Who was Leah
Who was Rachel
What lesson does this teach
any Ideas

Is it a small matter that thou
#1:
hast taken my husband?
and
#2:
wouldest thou take away my son’s mandrakes also?

[Buzzard]

I forgot to add, if Reuben collected his mandrakes during the WHEAT HARVEST...why didn't he bring his momma wheat?

Why a mandrake????

Why a love apple that induces a passionate response?

More questions than answers, I know, but I am confident someone's going to tie my shoes again...

I'm close, I can just feel it.

Lets continue on then

as I asked before

:confused:
Who was Reuben
Who was Leah
Who was Rachel
What lesson does this teach
any Ideas



~{Hosea 5:9}~
among the tribes of Israel have I made known that which shall surely be.

Reuben
~{Gen.49:1}~
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said,
Gather yourselves together,
that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob;
and hearken unto Israel your father.

3 Reuben,
thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength,
the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:
4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel;
because thou wentest up to thy father’s bed; then defiledst thou it:
he went up to my couch


Reuben,
thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength,

Students of the Apostles
http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1808
ie:
the beginning of my strength / Church,

~{Gen.30:12}~
14 And Reuben went
in the days of wheat harvest,
and found mandrakes in the field,

[Just_A_Mom]

• Reuben,
thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength,


I actually was digging last night on the subject of Reuben and found this;

Deuteronomy 21:15-17
If a man have two wives,
one beloved,
and another hated,
and they have born him children,
both the beloved and the hated;
and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
Then it shall be,
when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath,
that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated,
which is indeed the firstborn:
But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn,
by giving him a double portion of all that he hath:
forhe is the beginning of his strength;
the right of the firstborn is his.


Reuben was redeemed (in my opinion) by the very fact his sons and daughters were given land by Moses. (Joshua 22) Reuben's birthright was recognized, and his descendants received their portion of land.



The wheat and the tares (mandrakes) are allowed to grow together in the same field until the harvest.

Mt 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest:
and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,
Gather ye together first the tares,
and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


The tares will be harvested first.

Reuben "harvested" the mandrake out of the field before the wheat, but instead of burning it, he offered it to his momma.

So I guess I am questioning if Reuben was a "reaper"?