Can the Gospel and Doctrine be separated?

[Zaph]

I often hear people and some organizations say that we Christians need to let go of our differences (doctrines) and come together in unity. Besides, don't we all worship the same God?

I personally don't believe the two can be separated. If doctrine doesn't matter in terms of salvation and one only needs to believe in Jesus as Savior then why all the different denominations???

What do some of you think?

[Tom]

I think there are essential and non-esssential doctrines. In other words certain things are non negotiable and other things aren't worth fighting over. Preaching Christ and Him crucified as the only means of salvation by grace through faith is non-negotiable. If somebody doesn't want musical instruments in their church it is of no concern to me. I won't attend a church without music but I won't call people that do heathen

Mighty big of me, huh, Clint.

Tom:D :D :D :D

[North]

I basically agree with Tom. I do not think we can let go of our doctrines because they are based on interpretations of scripture regarding certain issues. The non essentials are what Hank Hanegraaff refers to as 'in-house debates'. In other words we may disagree with Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox doctrines but still realize that they are Christians. I say in general because there are folks who criticized CRI for not including the Roman Catholic Church and the Seventh Day Adventists as cultists.

An Arminian/Open Theist & Calvinist are not going to suddenly come together. They all see solid scriptural support for their position. We can see them as each believers in our Lord Jesus Christ and 'saved' and yet we may not agree with their interpretation. The same for a Lutheran & a Baptist or someone from the non denomination denomination.

These in house debates will continue until the second coming.

North

[cdhale]

Yes Tom, although you know that I really don't care about that particular issue :banana: . LOL

There are many that do, however.

As to this discussion, I think it is imperative to define what you mean by "gospel" and "doctrine." I take the first to be what Paul described in 1 Cor 15:1ff. It is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for the salvation of lost humanity.

Doctrine simply means teaching. We teach about all kinds of stuff that are indirectly connected or not really connected at all to the gospel. Examples of that would be the musical instruments, church government, etc. What in the world do those things have to do with the death, burial or resurrection of Jesus? Absolutely nothing.

So what you guys said is right. Some things are essential, such as Jesus was real and came in the flesh. He lived a sinless life, died on the cross, being separated from God to pay for our sin and was resurrected by God, demonstrating His power. I would call those things essential.

But the other stuff, for the most part, is determined by our own personal views. Most of them are not essential.

Gospel and doctrine are two different things, though closely related.

clint

[swtsnshyn]

Is there an "echo" in the air? ;)

As for the subject at hand, basically I agree with what has already been posted. :agree: The main points that need to be grasped and that have no room for "interpretation" are:
1. Jesus was a real person born of a virgin (thus making Him God and man) that lived a sinless life.
2. He was crucified on the cross and took the sin of all on Himself thus causing separation between Him and God.
3. He was buried and on the third day was resurrected.
These, I believe, are the apostles' doctrine (teaching) talked about in Acts 2:42 and are essential.

As for things like whether or not there should be music, should women wear only dresses and never wear pants or shorts, should a man be allowed to have "long" hair, church government, etc. are brought about because of different viewpoints. These viewpoints are not always biblically based. However, they are not essential to one's salvation nor are they worth the arguing and strife.

As for whether or not the Gospel and doctrine can be separated, :think: the "apostles' doctrine" that is spoken of earlier is the Gospel. Again, this is essential, but there are other "doctrines" that are not. These "non-essential" doctrines can be separated from the Gospel.

If the church as a whole would focus on the "essentials" and not the "differences", we would come together in unity. I, at times, have seen this take place in our community, and it is wonderful! :banana: :fun:


God Bless!!
Dawn
Shining brightly for Jesus :)

[Zaph]

If everyone agrees that there are certian essential doctrines and everyone agrees on these then why be a Baptist, Methodist, 7th-Day Adventist, Luthern, catholic, etc..??

[cdhale]

Because of the very fact that outside of those essentials, there is various disagreements over the non essentials. In my denominations case, there is a complete and total abhorrence toward instruments of music in worship (not an opinion shared by me, but general to the denom). In Tom's case, he much prefers to have the instrument (BTW Tom, singing is also music - lol). So how do you proceed? It would be nice if we could all gather together and agree on the essentials and ignore the rest, but when it comes time to sing, we have a logistical problem. Do we use the instrument or not?

Hence, the reason there are different denominations (in a much simplified explanation).

clint - who hates the fact that Christians are divided over non-essentials and would love for us to all get together and show the love of Christ to the world

[Zaph]

Clint, I agree with your answer. Not that I like it but I agree with it. Apparently at one time the everyone in the early christian church did agree on what are the essential teachings of the Bible (which was the OT for them for the most part) because Paul said...

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I believe since then the devil has crept inside the Christian body and have started false teachings which divide us. If we could agree these so called essentials then the false teachings would be easy to identify that Jesus, Peter, and Luke all warned us about .

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

[itsjustdave1988]

Zaph,

I believe the history of the Church shows that there has never been a time when disciples of Christ agreed on the essentials of doctrine.

From St. James the Just came the circumcision party. Ultimately, the apostles at the Council of Jerusalem (including James) came to agree on the matter of circumcision. However, despite the decrees of this council, it seems the heresy continued within the universal Church (called Ebionites, I believe).

Even a cursory study of historical heresies shows that there was never a time that Christianity was without disagreement on what many considered essential doctrines.

For me, the only doctrines I consider essential are 1) love God & 2) love your neighbor.

[cdhale]

But Dave, to love God, you must keep His commandments (2 John 6 and many others). So which commands must be kept in order to still love God? :D

BTW, I agree with you for the most part...

also, in discussing the gospel and defining it...we usually run to1 Cor 15 (as I have done above), but usually ignore Mark 1:1.

That would be a consideration when talking about what the gospel is.

clint

[itsjustdave1988]

Clint,

So which commands must be kept in order to still love God?

Why, the command to use instruments in your musical ministry, of course. :D

With all seriousness, when we summarize the gospel into one or two verses, we inevitably become more ambiguous as to what is meant. If it were that easy, we wouldn't have 73 books in the Bible!! ... or 66 for you protestors ;)

[Zaph]

Dave, well I can't agrue that point as I am not as up on church history as you are. It is times like this that I wish I had taken some theology corses when I was in college. However, I was not interested in such things at that point in my life.

Clint, I'm not sure if it should be done in this topic thread but if you ever get the time I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind the belief that musical instruments should not be used. I realize you don't hold to that but I'm sure the founders of your denomination thought that they had good Biblical reasons.

[cdhale]

no problem, I will start a new thread on it

clint

[Brotherdavid]

No it cannot be separated...... for one, what many perceive to be the gospel is not the gospel, but perhaps just a portion. the Bible says in Amos 3:3- Can two walk together, except they be agreed ?