The Third Part of the Trees were Burned Up

[me again]

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. (Rev. 8:7)How hot will it have to become for a third part of the trees to be burned up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3109963.stm)? Is global warming contributing to this trend? How bad will it get before this scripture is fulfilled?

How do you interpret the above scripture?

:confused:

[Tom]

If this is a condition caused by heat why only a third? Are they specific heat sensitive species? Are these all the trees in one geographical area or one out of every three worldwide? Nuclear event? Meteor impact, who knows? This is one of those Deut. 29:29 things.

Clint will say this is symbolism and not an event which will literally transpire but I disagree. Different viewpoints on Revelation, but that's ok, it's part of the beauty of it all. :D :D :D

Tom

[cdhale]

yes Tom, you are right about what I think. See, you are getting there...:D :banana: :D

and by the way, I am convinced that global warming (as defined by contemporary alarmists) is bunk. There is a natural cycle of heating and cooling. You may notice that in many of the articles about this topic they say something like "temperatures are as high as they have been for a thousand years." Well, have you ever wondered why it was so hot a thousand years ago? Can't blame it on SUVs or aerosol cans...

anyway, sorry that is off topic now back to the figurative meaning of the passage...;)

clint

[Zaph]

Hmmmm.... With the heat wave that is going through Europe right now one can easily see how forest fires easily gather speed and consume vast amounts of land. I believe we haven't seen anything yet.

[Ed]

Posted by Zaph
Hmmmm.... With the heat wave (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3109963.stm) that is going through Europe right now one can easily see how forest fires easily gather speed and consume vast amounts of land. I believe we haven't seen anything yet. I agree!!! I don't think we've seen anything yet!!! :devil1:

[Ron Lambert]

We should allow the Bible to be its own expositor, and not try to read into it our own subjective views. How are "trees" used in Bible prophecy? In Daniel chapter four King Nebuchadnezzar is given by God a vision of a tree that is cut down, but a band is placed about the stump. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that the tree represented the King, who would be cut down by seven years of insanity; yet the kingdom would still be preserved until Nebuchadnezzar regained his sanity. Thus we have the definition tree=king or kingdom.

The logic behind the use of this symbolism is also indicated in the statements that "Its leaves were lovely, Its fruit abundant, And in it was food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, The birds of the heavens dwelt in its branches, And all flesh was fed from it." (Daniel 4:12; NKJV) Thus the symbol of a tree or trees represents nations in the sense of emphasizing their role of nurturing and providing for the common good of its people.

Other prophetic symbols for nations or kingdoms are also used in Bible prophecy: mountains, which emphasize the way empires dominate the landscape, and beasts, which suggest that God is implying that nations that engage in wars of conquest are behaving like animals.

In the prophecy of the first trumpet (Revelation 8:7), one third of all trees being burned up means one third of all national governments will be consumed by the "fire" of anger and indignation that will come in response to all the afflictions and adversity that rain down on mankind in the first part of the verse. Since in the modern age many governments (including all the most powerful governments) are democracies, in which the people have ultimate power, it is fitting that the figure of grass is used, and all of the grass is said to be burned up. Isaiah 40:6, 7 tells us: "All flesh is grass, And all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. The grass withers, the flower fades, Because the breath of the Lord blows upon it; Surely the people are grass." (NKJV)

When the restraining influence and protection of the Holy Spirit begins to be removed from the earth because of the growing spirit of rebellion against God, afflictions of various sorts rain down upon humanity. These afflictions include things that humans do, like terrorism, corruption of trusted officials, economic calamity; and they include natural disasters. As a result of these things, all the human race is radicalized by furious indignation, and laws are called for and enacted that are more severe and harsh than would have been tolerated in more peaceful times.

The figure of trees being burned up could refer to governments actually being overthrown. But it could also refer to a nation like America casting aside its Constitutional guarantees of religious liberty, and making all human rights subordinate to "national security."

This scenario is certainly more credible now than it was years ago.

[me again]

Ron,

You’re forcing me to think again. :no: ;) :me::up:

I had always interpreted the trees being burned up as a literal interpretation. However, I had never considered the symbolisms and the analogies that you just presented. Yes, I think that yoru interpretation is plausible. I will have to chew on it, as it’s the first time I’ve read that particular interpretation.

For many years, I have pondered that particular scripture, regarding 1/3rd of the trees being burned up, yet I’ve never come across a plausible explanation, until now.

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by Ron Lambert
We should allow the Bible to be its own expositor, and not try to read into it our own subjective views. How are "trees" used in Bible prophecy? In Daniel chapter four King Nebuchadnezzar is given by God a vision of a tree that is cut down, but a band is placed about the stump. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that the tree represented the King, who would be cut down by seven years of insanity; yet the kingdom would still be preserved until Nebuchadnezzar regained his sanity. Thus we have the definition tree=king or kingdom.



Trees:
~{Judges 9:8}~
8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them;
and they said unto the olive tree,
Reign thou over us.
9 But the olive tree said unto them,
Should I leave my fatness,
wherewith by me they honour God and man,
and go to be promoted over the trees?

10 And the trees said to the fig tree,
Come thou, and reign over us.
11 But the fig tree said unto them,
Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit,
and go to be promoted over the trees?

12 Then said the trees unto the vine,
Come thou, and reign over us.
13 And the vine said unto them,
Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man,
and go to be promoted over the trees?

14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble,
Come thou, and reign over us.
15 And the bramble said unto the trees,
If in truth ye anoint me king over you,
then come and put your trust in my shadow:
and if not,
let fire come out of the bramble,
and devour the cedars of Lebanon.
.
.

~{Ps.52:1}~
1 Why boastest thou thyself in mischief,
O mighty man?
the goodness of God endureth continually.
2 Thy tongue deviseth mischiefs;
like a sharp razor, working deceitfully.

3 Thou lovest evil more than good;
and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.
4 Thou lovest all devouring words,
O thou deceitful tongue.

5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever,
he shall take thee away,
and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place,
and root thee out of the land of the living.
Selah.

6 The righteous also shall see,
and fear, and shall laugh at him:

7 Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength;
but trusted in the abundance of his riches,
and strengthened himself in his wickedness.

8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God:
I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
.
.
~{Ps.1:1}~
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD;
and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water,
that bringeth forth his fruit in his season;
his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
.
.
~{Ps.37:35}~
35 I have seen the wicked in great power,
and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not:
yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright:
for the end of that man is peace.

38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together:
the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD:
he is their strength in the time of trouble.
.
.
~{Luke 6:44}~
43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit;
neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44 For every tree is known by his own fruit.
For of thorns men do not gather figs,
nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
.
.
~{Matt.7:16}~
15 Beware of false prophets,
which come to you in sheep’s clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits
.
----Christ Asks----
Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit;
but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit,
neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is
hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

.
I could go on and on about “Trees”
Suffice it to say

~{Isaiah 61:1}~
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me;
because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
and the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion,
to give unto them beauty for ashes,
the oil of joy for mourning,
the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;

that they might be called
trees of righteousness,
the planting of the LORD,
that he might be glorified.

4 And they shall build the old wastes,
they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities,
the desolations of many generations.

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD:
men shall call you the Ministers of our God:
ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.




God Bless Your "Bible" Studies;
Buzz:

[me again]

Posted by me again:The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. (Rev. 8:7)How hot will it have to become for all the grass to be burned up? Is global warming contributing to this trend? How bad will it get before this scripture is fulfilled?

How do you interpret the above scripture? :confused:Ron,

Using your theory of symbolism, I found a place in Psalms that equates "grass" as symbolic for the shortness of human life:Psalm 103:15
As for man, his days are like grass...Thus, in Revelation 8:7 (posted above), it could be symbolic that all men will die? This doesn't seem like an applicable scenario for that particular scripture.

What do you think? :confused:

[Buzzard]

Grass = Works of Men

~{Zec 10:1}~
Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain;
so the LORD shall make bright clouds,
and give them showers of rain,
to every one grass in the field.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.


Buzz:

[Ron Lambert]

Ed & Buzz, along with the texts you gave, don't overlook the one I quoted from Isaiah 40:6, 7: "All flesh is grass, And all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. The grass withers, the flower fades, Because the breath of the Lord blows upon it; Surely the people are grass." (NKJV)

Here are a couple of prophecies in the old testament that are strikingly similar to the prophecy of the first trumpet, using many of the same symbols. Notice how things are explained in terms of the way people behave and treat each other, even brother fighting brother:For wickedness burns like a fire, it consumes briers and thorns; it kindles the thickets of the forest, and they roll upward in a column of smoke. Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts the land is burned, and the people are like fuel for the fire; no man spares his brother.—Isa. 9:18, 19 (RSV)

I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD. Every man's sword will be against his brother. I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him.—Eze. 38:21, 22 (NIV)It is my belief that these passages of prophecy are indeed parallel to the prophecy of the first trumpet, and shall find their complete fulfillment as the final conflict is beginning.

(As some here may be aware, I hold that all the seven trumpets prophecies have their primary application to the final conflict, at the same time that Jesus is bringing to a conclusion His final ministry in the Second Apartment of the Heavenly Sanctuary, and the first trumpet is due to sound at any moment.)

[Buzzard]

~{Zech.13:7}~
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
and against the man that is my fellow,
saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered:
and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

8 And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land, saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:
I will say, It is my people:
and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

:eek:
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh
-----------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
ect. ect. ect.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

[Ed]

Resurrecting an old thread can be good!!! :banana:
Snip...
In the prophecy of the first trumpet (Revelation 8:7), one third of all trees being burned up means one third of all national governments will be consumed by the "fire" of anger and indignation that will come in response to all the afflictions and adversity that rain down on mankind in the first part of the verse.

Since in the modern age many governments (including all the most powerful governments) are democracies, in which the people have ultimate power, it is fitting that the figure of grass is used, and all of the grass is said to be burned up. Isaiah 40:6, 7 tells us: "All flesh is grass, And all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. The grass withers, the flower fades, Because the breath of the Lord blows upon it; Surely the people are grass." (NKJV)

Interesting. :idea:

So, according to the above analogy, which uses other O.T. scriptures to draw correlations, the following analogies may (?) be made:Trees = National Governments, Dan. 4:12 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=dan+4%3A12&KJV_version=yes&language=english&x=13&y=7)
Grass = People, Source Isiah 40:6,7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Isaiah+40%3A6%2C7&KJV_version=yes&language=english&x=13&y=9)

[saved]

[color=blue]How hot will it have to become for a third part of the trees to be burned up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3109963.stm)? Is global warming contributing to this trend? How bad will it get before this scripture is fulfilled?

How do you interpret the above scripture?

:confused:
The pasage is self interpretive. It is not about global warming, but about fire coming down from heaven to do the distruction.

[Ron Lambert]

AS Ed summarized,
Trees = National Governments, Dan. 4:12
Grass = People, Isaiah 40:6,7

I would add:

Fire=Strong passion, such as violent anger and hatred, or an irresistable divinely-inspired zeal--depending on context: Ex. 32:10; Psa. 39:3; Isa. 57:5; Ezek. 22:21 (especially see Hos. 7:6, 7)

Burned up=Consumed by strong passion: Num. 21:28; Psa 119:139

As I understand it, when these definitions are brought together, it leads to the conclusion that the first trumpet is talking about some great upheaval that takes place among nations and people; something causes everyone to become radicalized so that the nations are caught up in a frenzy of indignation that leads to the overthrow of many governments, and people are willing to allow extreme measures to be taken to restore order.

But what causes all this passion and revolution?

The first part of the prophecy involves "hail and fire, mingled with blood" being hurled onto the earth. We have already defined fire, but what about hail and blood?

We'll take blood first, since that should be the most obvious.

"Blood” is used throughout Scripture as a metaphor for murder, warfare, and strife. The very first instance of bloodshed recorded in the Bible was when Cain murdered his brother Abel. At that time, God confronted Cain, saying, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground." (Gen. 4:10; NKJV) In another place, the Lord declares, "if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my wrath upon it with blood, to cut off from it man and beast; even if Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, says the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness." (Ezek 14:19, 20; RSV) The Lord also warns: "Woe to him who builds a town with blood, and founds a city on iniquity!" (Hab. 2:12; RSV)

The hail is the symbol that is the key to understanding what happens that triggers everything else.

"Hail” is water that has become so cold, it has frozen and become hard. Water is used in Revelation to represent "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (Rev. 17:15). Similarly, in the prophecies of Daniel seven, the nations that were to exercise world dominion arose out of the "sea," which represented the populations of the "Old World" (the continents of Europe and Asia Minor) from which these kingdoms arose through strife and wars of conquest.

What then must be the meaning of ice? How do we describe certain people, when the love of God and of fellow human beings is absent from their hearts? Do we not call them cold, and hard-hearted? Jesus warned us concerning the time of the end: "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold." (Mat. 24:12; NKJV). The Ten Commandments were summarized by Jesus as consisting of two essential principles: love for God, and love for one's fellow man (see Mat. 22:37). This is what God promises to write on our hearts in the New Covenant (see Jer. 31:33, 34). So when the Law of God is rejected, and the New Covenant is refused, the heart is left cold and hard from absence of love.

When the Pharaoh of Egypt resisted the warnings of God delivered by Moses, Scripture says his heart was "hardened" (Ex. 7:22; 8:19; 9:7, 35). Likewise, the Bible says of some people who resisted the preaching of Paul, that they were "hardened" (Acts 19:9).

What better symbol than hail could God choose to represent people who have cast aside the restraint of God's law of love, and who show no respect for the rights, welfare, and lives of others? Note that this may not merely apply to invading foreign armies. It can also connote terrorists or angry mobs. It can also refer to public officials who cast aside any sense of integrity and honesty, and betray their position of public trust. All these are manifestations of human hearts grown cold and hardened from lack of the love that comes from God.

In a prophecy of the Judgment Day, God spoke through Isaiah: "Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place." (Isa. 28:17) In verse 2 of the same chapter we read: "Behold, the Lord has one who is mighty and strong; like a storm of hail, a destroying tempest, like a storm of mighty, overflowing waters, he will cast down to the earth with violence." (RSV)

Frequently in Scripture we read that God allowed judgments to come upon various nations, particularly Israel and its neighbors, as "redemptive discipline" designed to reprove them and correct their wickedness. Often this took the form of withdrawing His protection, so that foreign armies were allowed to invade and ravage the land. Among the various figurative terms used to represent this kind of affliction of society was "hail" (see Ezek. 38:21, 22).

On the surface, it seems strange that in the prophecy of the first trumpet the Lord would combine such symbols as hail, fire, and blood. How can ice mix with fire? How can hail and fire mixed with blood fall from the sky? But when we consider what each symbol means, then we can appreciate the appropriateness of the Lord's choice of metaphors. People may become cold, and hard-hearted when they cast aside God's law of love, and at the same time be burning with the fire of bloody, murderous passions.

Now let us ask, what would be the impact upon human society in general, if it were to be "showered" with wanton, unprincipled, and even violent people like a hailstorm? Would this not result in great trouble and affliction?

Already, some people are so unloving and hateful that they commit incredible terrorist acts. Some have poisoned food or medicines on store shelves. Some even kill people just so they can joyride for a few hours in their car. In the past we have seen mobs so inflamed by racial hatred that they riot for days, and burn down city blocks, and loot and vandalize businesses essential for the economic well-being of their own communities. We have seen National Guardsmen patrolling U.S. cities in the past. We hear of people in positions of public responsibility and trust who sell themselves and betray the welfare of society for personal gain. All these things, when they have happened in the past, have made front page news, and we were all filled with a sense of dismay and outrage.

What if all crimes humans have been known to commit, were multiplied one-hundredfold, because the restraining influence of God's Spirit of love was absent from many hearts? What if mobs began to act out their feelings of racial hatred without any restraint? Our cities could become well-nigh uninhabitable, and our highways could become a terrifying gauntlet.

Common sense and historical experience tell us that if human society comes under the onslaught of a hailstorm of violent, lawless, unprincipled people, many governments will be radicalized. Some may actually be overthrown, either as a direct result of the violence, or as a result of the people blaming government for what has befallen them. But many will be enraged, and in their zeal to put a stop to the onslaught, they will enact stringent laws that would never be approved in times of peace, and police-state tactics and military force where needed will be employed to enforce them. Even nations with a long tradition of democratic freedom and liberty may change in their essential character overnight.

God takes note in the prophecy of the first trumpet of such a change in the essential characters of a substantial number of governments, as they are transformed from peace-time democracies to states under siege, with a siege mentality. Another example when God takes note of this type of change is seen in Revelation 13:

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.—Rev. 13:11; NIV

The prophecy of the first trumpet tells us when the lamblike beast begins to speak as a dragon, and what prompts its change of character. In a democracy, it must take something that provokes the people for this to happen (the "grass" that is "burned up").

What is it that might bring about this turn of events? We read in Revelation 7:2, 3 that an urgent message is given to the four angels holding back the winds of strife. The angel commands them not to hurt the earth, the sea, or the trees, until the servants of God have been sealed. The urgency of this command indicates that the four angels had already begun to release their hold on the winds of strife. This means that the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit had begun to be withdrawn. It also means that the angels of God, who have been extremely active throughout human history, in cooperating with the Spirit of God to counterwork the stratagems of Satan and his cohorts, have already begun to "stand down," and allow satanic forces to have freer rein.

This is the time brought to view in the prophecy of the first trumpet, when the Holy Spirit has in a partial measure been withdrawn, thus removing some of the previous restraint upon the carnal hearts of people, allowing them to become even more inflamed with violent passion, and rain the hail of affliction down on society. This leads to the enactment of draconian measures to deal with the afflictions besetting society, as civil liberties are set aside in the name of home security. This in turn will lead to the second beast of Revelation 13 requiring all nations to make an image to the beast and receive its mark, and impose a boycott on any who refuse to receive the mark of the beast.

[me again]

Ron,

That was a fascinating post. I have never read of the equivalencies that you made i.e. hail equaling a cold, hard heart, etc. I'm frankly not sure what to think. However, I've never read or heard of a better interpretation for those metaphors. Thanks for sharing it. I'll continue thinking about it.

The last paragraph threw me and I don't understand it.

[Ron Lambert]

Me Again, I was trying to offer a quick summary in the last paragraph, and note that it is when the Holy Spirit begins to be withdrawn from the earth that earthly society begins to explode in violence and turmoil. (The angels holding the winds of strife in Rev. 7:1-3 represent all of God's agencies which work under the control and leadership of the Holy Spirit, so when they begin to release the winds of strife, that means the Holy Spirit is beginning to be withdrawn from the earth.) When things we have seen in the past, like terrorist attacks, drive-by shootings, product tampering, and all kinds of crime, are increased 100-fold, then the reaction of the people will be to demand that government take extreme measures to stem the tide. This will lead to the enactment of laws that would seem dictatorial and intrusive in more peaceful times. People will be so concerned for homeland security, that they will give up many of their civil liberties willingly. Then, once society has started down this path, it will lead to laws requiring religious observances, in hopes that will improve the moral tone of society. This will sound plausible on the surface. But in the time of the end, the final conflict will be over worship of the creature (beast) vs. worship of the Creator, and Satan will use such laws to compell obedience to the creature-centered system of worship that he will introduce and empower. Sinful, unconverted man acting religious, and man-made religious institutions, will be exalted and venerated as holy things, and anyone who questions them and refuses to bow down and submit to them, will be subject to boycott, and eventually, the death penalty.

I'm just trying to show where the prophecy of the first trumpet fits in with end-time events, and how logically the things that take place lead to the other things that follow.

To me, the one question remaining is what exactly is it that causes the beginning of the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit from the earth? It must be something that is done by human society, some official position or action taken, that warrants the first stages in the removal of divine restraint and protection.

I am only guessing now, offering personal speculation, but I wonder if a nation-wide or even international movement to approve gay marriages would be such an affront to God's authority that He would have to begin the withdrawal of His Spirit from the earth.

I think that the issue of gay marraige may be more important that it seems on the surface. Only two things were instituted by God in Eden before sin entered: The Sabbath, and marriage. Both represent our acceptance of divine authority. The mark of the beast during the final conflict will involve the choice people make when confronted with a life-or-death choice whether to exalt creature righteousness by honoring man-made institutions like Sunday keeping, which commemorates the presumed authority of men to change the Sabbath; or to submit to God's righteousness by honoring the Sabbath that commemorates God's Creatorship, as stated in the fourth commandment. Could it be that some human attempt to impose man-made ideas of righteousness on the divine institution of marriage, as if man knows better than God what is right, will also play a crucial role in triggering end time events?

[Sissy]

Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Ten horns = ten kingdoms.
Only 7 heads and crowns because 3 fell? Fell how? Destroyed? Or just didn't go along with the others?

If it were because they resisted the others then it would correspond to Buzz's comment:

~{Zech.13:7}~
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
and against the man that is my fellow,
saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered:
and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land, saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:
I will say, It is my people:
and they shall say, The LORD is my God.


The third part that is refined by fire would be those who resisted Satan? So, it would be those who were burnt in Rev. 8:7?

[Sissy]

And would that also explain why only the 7 heads had the name of blasphemy, but not the 10 horns (because 3 of the horns resisted the rule of the beast)?

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

horns = kingdoms.
heads = mountains.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Mountains. Would that be the kingdoms that were raised up and lorded over the people? (the kingdoms in which the people submitted to their rule)?
Ten horns (kingdoms), but only seven heads (mountains) because 3 of those kingdoms did not willingly submit?
Mountain or high places usually were mentioned in scripture to denote places of worship.
10 kingdoms but only 7 mountains. Because 3 of those kingdoms fell (not raised up) to conform to the worship of the beast?

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eze 6:3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

Just thinking out loud here.

[me again]

Snip...
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. Sissy, there are 7 mountains in Rome, which is headquarters for the Catholic Church. Do you think that it could be referring to this religious institution?

[Sissy]

I have heard that.

I have also heard that Jerusalem sits on 7 hills.

That old stinker Satan always tries to imitate God.

I do find it interesting that Christ addressed 7 churches in the beginning of Revelation. And then we have that nasty woman sitting on seven mountains.
It just made me think of all the places in the OT where "mountain" or "high place" almost always refered to a place of worship.


Don't mind me. Sometimes I go in circles with scripture till I settle!
Was just wondering if anyone else noticed the comparison and thought there was a connection.

[Buzzard]

The Title of this thread was
The Third Part of the Trees were Burned Up Revelation is a book of
"Symboloic Prophesy"~{Matt.7:16}~
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
:confused:
Do men gather grapes of thorns,
or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit;
but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit,
neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
The Third Part of the Trees were Burned Up 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
and cast into the fire.

~{Zech.13:7}~
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow,
saith the LORD of hosts:
smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered:
and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:
I will say, It is my people:
and they shall say, The LORD is my God.


Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,



~{Isaiah 61:3}~
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me;
because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion,
to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning,
the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
that they might be called
trees of righteousness,
the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
and cast into the fire.
that they might be called
trees of righteousness,
the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes,
they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

[dedication]

Interesting texts Buzzard!

I did notice that most of them were prophecies surrounding Christ's first advent which I find quite interesting.

Being a confirmed Historistist as to prophetic interpretation of these trumpets-- I see them as God's judgments (miniture judgments) throughout the Christian era.

From their historical fulfilment we can see something of the "final day of judgment".--- Sort of like Joshua and his armies marching around Jericho each day of the week with "trumpets". But then-- the seventh day of marching they did it seven times all in one day!

Anyway here are a few thoughts:

1st Trumpet, Judgment on Jerusalem


"Hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth and a third of the trees were burned up and all green grass was burned up. Rev. 8:7"
Fulfilled:
God's chosen nation, rejected Christ, their King. This is where the first judgment falls. "Your house is left to you desolate" Matt. 23:38 Jerusalem fell in a terrible siege and destruction in 70 A.D.

Biblical Symbolism used:


Ezek. 5:1-4
"Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city...
a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind....
sword after them...

This describes the destruction of Jerusalem at the time of the exile to Babylon.
Then Zech. 13:8 and 9.

"I will bring the third part through the fire and will refine them as silver is refined and will try them as gold is tried and they shall call on my name and I will hear them....."

Israel was often likened to Trees (Lev. 24.5,6)

How goodly are thy tents, ... O Israel! ... As the trees of lign aloes which the LORD hath planted, and as cedar trees beside the waters.
Isaiah 10.17-19 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standard bearer fainteth. And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.

Jer. 6.6 For thus hath the LORD of hosts said, Hew ye down trees, and cast a mount against Jerusalem: this is the city to be visited; she is wholly oppression in the midst of her.


The trees represent the proud leaders (Is. 2:12,13)

The grass represents the common inhabitants (2 Kings 19.26 Is. 37:27)

Is. 37:27 Therefore their inhabitants were of small power, they were dismayed and confounded; they were as the grass of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the house tops, and as corn blasted before it be grown up.
Isaiah 40.7,8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Hail has the general meaning of a weapon God uses to meet out judgment against false religion.

(Isa 28:17) "Hail will sweep away your refuge of lies."
(Ezekiel 13:10-16) "They have seduced my people saying, Peace and there was no peace...they built up a wall...hailstones shall fall and a storm wind shall rend it...great hailstones will consume it....the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem of peace for her, and there is no peace."
Haggai 2:17 "I smote you with...hail..yet you turned not to me says the Lord.

Not only were the trees and grass symbolic, but in a literal sense we find that most of the trees around Jerusalem were cut down by the Roman armies and used for crosses, attack equipment etc. during the seige.

In Isaiah 5, and Ps. 80:8 we read that Christ had brought Israel as a goodly vine out of Egypt. He had planted it in a fruitful hill. Pruning, tending, it. But they did not bring forth fruit-- they had despised and rejected God's calls-- now the destroying sword stood over Jerusalem to lay it waste.

It was the sight of Jerusalem that pierced the heart of Jesus— Jerusalem that had rejected the prophets and now the Son of God and scorned His love. He saw...what she might have been had she accepted Him who alone could heal her wound.....Jerusalem, Jerusalem how often I would have gathered you as a hen gatherth her chicks, but you won't repond! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matt. 23:38

The first trumpet sounds the warning of judgment against unfruitful religion.


The first trumpet sounded it's warning. It's history stands as evidence that judgment will come.

[Doma]

Since this will be a time of tribulation and described with pestilences and such, I would dare to guess there will probably be a drought. And then when the fire falls from the sky, many of the trees being dry from the drought will easily burn up.

[dominican]

[color=blue]How hot will it have to become for a third part of the trees to be burned up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3109963.stm)? Is global warming contributing to this trend? How bad will it get before this scripture is fulfilled?

How do you interpret the above scripture?

:confused:

Hi me again. I think it is all in how we look at scripture. Your relating this to something worldly, when Revelations relates to the three ages/ions. Past, present and future. If we look to Israel, who was an example for us, all becomes clearer. Relating scripture with scripture for spiritual truths. Some good examples have been given in this thread BTW.

My interpretation is a bit different. And it stems from studies of EW Bullinger. If you have ever read his study The Apocalypse, and particularly the correlation of the seven churches, you begin to see the pattern. IMO the seven is relating to all of the earth, in that there are seven continents on the earth that man dwells on. (there is a good study of numbers done by Bullinger also)

Drawing from scripture, these trees you speak of relate to the study of the trumpets. Trumpets were used to call the ppl to gather to move or for feasts etc. So we could suggest that God is calling us to move in these verses. But move from what, well the things being spoken of in relation to the trumpets all concern idol worship and judgement on such.

Seven also relates to spiritual perfection, and here is a little something in that direction and trees.

You can also see the cycle in the parable of the tree Luke 13:6-9. The first three years are years of growth, and though he wanted to cut it down because there was no fruit, the vine dresser asked him not to cut it down, but to wait until the next year. Meantime the vinedresser ferilized the tree and pruned it, the fourth year. The fifth year is a time of grace. The sixth is when the person is thrown back on the base level of development. So this is the test, it is our year of trial to test ourselves. The seventh is a year of rest.

Each time we go onto spiritual growth, we produce fruits worthy of repentance. This is complicated, but I’m simplifying it to see the framework. The temple being a spiritual representation of the development of the elect till they come into the Holy of Holies.


This quote is from a study I did on trumpets and relating them to the seven great Passovers in scripture. I'm not going to get into that, because that is not the subject of the thread. But here is some on this first trumpet.

cont.

[dominican]

Now let’s look at the trumpets. You will notice the reference to thirds. It refers to satan who drew a third, and David who divided the people in thirds. Three equals a witness, can you see why satan wants a third. To take away the witness. Even if he gets a third, the other two have him out voted. No, it’s not about votes, it is about guarding the temple. He wants to catch a guard down.

First trumpet, Rev. 8:7 says a third of the grass and trees is burnt. To me this is Gods response to the first sign of idol worship. Trees and grass representive of the idol worship, and the burning result is famine, spiritual and physical. The reason I say the grass and trees is idol worship, is because it refers me to the groves (trees) and the grass (were the asherah was placed) in the new land after they came from Egypt. The first idol worship in the promised land was nature and fertility related. IOW worshipping the creation instead of the creator. Also known as animism. The new age movement has much that relates to this. Using a concept called process theology, it is gaining ground spiritually. They try to make God immanent, which is the Babylonian system. This is of the dragon, it is akin to Buddhism and the eastern liberation theologies.

The trumpets call to those who are suppose to be worshipping God, but instead are in idol worship. They warn of judgment and remind of restoration. With bad is good. Notice the hail and fire is mixed with blood. The hail and fire is God, the blood is idol worship, and it is mixed with Gods worshippers. We are not to mix these things, idol worship and Gods holy worship in spirit. It is as idol worshippers mixing wine with drugs or other intoxicants.

Of course the first great Passover was their escape from Egypt. And when they entered the promised land, this was the first idol worship they encountered. The study follows along these lines.

Thiis is something I looked at FWIW. :)

[Quasar]

Hi guys,

The passage in Rev.8:7, in which the first of seven angels sound their trumpets, it is hardly possible to interpret that part which states that all the green grass was burned up - as people - allegorically. Because in vs 10, there are many more people who die.

In Rev.9:4, the scorpions are commanded not to harm the grass but only the people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads, in the fifth trumpet plague. [More people].

The sixth angel blows his trumpet which will lead to a third of mankind to be killed, and an army of the kings of the east consists of 200 million more people. Rev.9:15-16.

In the first bowl plague, more people are mentioned who get painful sores, Rev.16:2. The fourth bowl plague scorches more people with power given to the sun, vs 8. In vs 10, in the fifth bowl plague, men gnawed their tongues in pain. In vs 14, the sixth bowl plague describes the kings of the whole world preparing for battle - of Armageddon. [More people].

Where I am in agreement with the many symbols of Revelation, and that they all stand for something specific, there is no way to understand prophecy unless it is done literally, as is the findings of most expositors of prophecy.

In His love.

Quasar

[me again]

Snip...
Where I am in agreement with the many symbols of Revelation, and that they all stand for something specific, there is no way to understand prophecy unless it is done literally, as is the findings of most expositors of prophecy.While much of Revelation is definately symbolic (e.g. the 7 candlesticks, etc...), I think that a lot of it is literal. For example, the locusts who who ascend from out of the bottomless pit are specifically commanded to refrain from hurting any green thing... and they are specifically commanded to torment only the men who have the mark of the beast in their foreheads. I have always contemplated that the locusts may be literal demonic-creatures from hell. :eek:

If we are in the last days... and if we are in the close of time... then we are very close to the unfolding of these final prophecies in the book of Revelation. Therefore, you can kiss your retirement efforts goodbye!!! You can kiss your bank account goodbye!!!! It's time to store up for ourselves treasures in heaven where moths and rust and dust don't collect!!!! :eek:

[Quasar]

Amen to that, Me Again!

Paul said the following: "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,....." Eph.2:6 And again in another place: "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified He also GLORIFIED," Rom.8:30. And in still another place: "...the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession - to the praise of His glory." Eph.1:13-14.

Without a doubt, we are already 'home,' whether Christ comes for us all first, or if He taps us on the shoulder and says, "come up here!"

In His love,

Quasar

[me again]

Last night while listening through Revelation on CD, I noticed that the 3rd horseman deals with oil e.g. hurt not the oil and the wine...". Have you noticed the global prices of oil lately and the wars that are being fought in the Middle East for access to the oil??? And remember when Sadaam Hussein destroyed the oil fields by setting them on fire???

But what I noticed even more than the above is that the 4th horse follows next (the pale horse) and it represents global death and destruction on a scale that we've never witnessed (yet). Is the 4th symbolic horse about to unfold on the planet??? :nervous:

[Mark@FL]

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. (Rev. 8:7)

The third of the trees being burnt up has to do with trees of knowledge or belief systems, suggesting a drastic change within a third of human knowledge. Grass is the food for cattle which is symbolic of what is taught for passive learning or without question, i.e, school. The color green implies nature or ideas based on natural thinking.

Water is symbolic of thoughts. Hail is solid water coming from the sky. This shows divine inspiration or solid thoughts of universal truth instead of opinion. Fire is symbolic of the instinctive potential; mixed with blood symbolizes the blood of the lamb or soft and gentile instinct.

Putting it all together divinely inspired ideas will appear from that will change the way humans think.

[Quasar]

Last night while listening through Revelation on CD, I noticed that the 3rd horseman deals with oil e.g. hurt not the oil and the wine...". Have you noticed the global prices of oil lately and the wars that are being fought in the Middle East for access to the oil??? And remember when Sadaam Hussein destroyed the oil fields by setting them on fire???

But what I noticed even more than the above is that the 4th horse follows next (the pale horse) and it represents global death and destruction on a scale that we've never witnessed (yet). Is the 4th symbolic horse about to unfold on the planet??? :nervous:


Greetings Me Again,

The first horseman on a white horse is the antichrist, as seen in Dan.9:27, at the beginning of the tribulation, and as Jesus states in Mt.24:15. The second horseman, on the red horse represent wars and rumors of war as Jesus stated in Mt.24:6-7. The horseman on the black horse represents pestilence and famine that always follow wars. The fourth horseman on the pale horse represents Jesus remarks in Mt.24:29 and Rev.20:11-15.

Your remarks would certainly seem to hit the nail on the head, which we are fully on the same page!

In His love,

Quasar