Have any of the Seven Seals been Opened?

[me again]

Here is an absolutely facinating question that I just ran across:

Have any of the seven seals been opened yet? :confused:Posted by watchman
What is your opinion on this subject which has made some contraversy in some churches? Have they been open? if yes why do you think they have and add scripture to help back up this opinion. If no, then give scripture and reasoning behind it as well.

From what I have heard, 3 have been opened and one is comeing due, the pale rider Death with his sword to kill and hell following close behind. I am interested to hear what people have to say on this subject and would appreciate any thoughts.

[cdhale]

Let me throw my 2 cents in before Buzz and the pre-mill faction take over...:D

The book of Revelation dealt primarily with the upcoming judgment upon Rome for the evil it committed, specifically in relation to the church. The prophecies were completed (with the exception of Chapters 20-22) when the Roman Empire was ultimately destroyed. So yes, all 7 seals have been opened. The verses that say this are the context of the book of Revelation itself, which proclaimed that it would happen quickly and was coming soon.


the reason that chap 20-22 are not included is that Revelation contains a theodicy (or treatment of the problem of evil) and no theodicy is complete without a discussion of the ultimate end of evil. Without this "end discussion" it would be teaching that evil and good exist side by side for eternity, each trying to get the upper hand. As Christians we know that good already has the upper hand and has in fact, already defeated evil. So this is discussed at the end of Revelation where evil is taken from its 1st century context and shown to be finally totally defeated at the final coming of Jesus.

clint

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by cdhale
Let me throw my 2 cents in before Buzz and the pre-mill faction take over...:D


Define "Pre Mill" for me

:think:
but I think you got it right tho.

#1:
Buzz. Speaks

#2:
Pre Mill Babbels

:D

Buzz:

[cdhale]

ok, ok

I just assumed you were from your prior posts. You do believe the Lord will come to earth, setting up a kingdom based in Jerusalem from which He will reign for a literal 1000 years, whereupon Satan will lead one final attack, leading to his destruction and the great white throne judgment, don't you? At least that is what I have gathered in our conversations...

forgive me if I am wrong.

I know there are others here who hold that theology.

so fire away ;)

clint

[Mr.Spookster]

In my field of work I see certain things. I will leave it at that. As a Christian its hard watch certain actions being prepared for and not try to hamper them. I am keeping a personal log on activities that are being prepared for (my eyes only). One being the potential return of CHRIST. There are certain organizations that are anticipating this, and are spending billions on weaponry to fight HIS return. They are joined by a host of other countries in this venture. I believe this is referring to Psalm Chapter 2. It is their opinion this will be an alien type invasion of earth. They do not see it as a GOD come to earth with the armies of heaven scenario. Are they in for a surprise.

As far as the seals being opened as yet. I would say no, but I do believe we are close to the first seal being opened. When seals 1-4 are opened the result will be the deaths of over 1.5 billion people. There will be no question that they have been opened.

[Little Lamb]

Mr. Spookster,

When do you think the Lord will return? Before the tribulation?

[Mr.Spookster]

Originally posted by Little Lamb
Mr. Spookster,

When do you think the Lord will return? Before the tribulation?


Hello Little Lamb

Personally I believe HE will return 2520 days after the treaty with many is signed (in Daniel). This is seven 360-day years. I know there are different beliefs here. I am more or less pre-mill, pre-trib. Though it will end however GOD wants it. There is no reason to be dogmatic here as long as you believe CHRIST will return and set up HIS kingdom.

I can't get into specifics but there is an author that is very closely watched, because of his former government and military ties. He is very accurate in his knowledge of groups and organizations that are attempting the enslavement of mankind. His name is Texx Marrs. He is a concern to many in the globalistic establishment. He has some radical views on some issues, but his knowledge of the global elite is unmatched. In my study of prophecy with, a close friend of mine, (who encouraged me to get involved in these types of forums), along with the knowledge I have attained from my field of work, comparing these references with Texx Marrs’s research we have found a striking parallel. That is all I can say about that. I recommend reading his books on the subject. These globalist will soon be used by GOD to cause the destruction and chaos we read of in Revelation chapter 6.

[me again]

Paraphrase of Mr.Spookster
Snip...
There is an author that is very closely watched because of his former government and military ties. He is very accurate in his knowledge of groups and organizations that are attempting the enslavement of mankind. His name is Texx Marrs. He is a concern to many in the globalistic establishment. He has some radical views on some issues, but his knowledge of the global elite is unmatched.

In my study of prophecy, along with the knowledge I have attained from my field of work, comparing these references with Texx Marrs’s research, we have found a striking parallel. That is all I can say about that. I recommend reading his books on the subject.

These globalist will soon be used by GOD to cause the destruction and chaos we read of in Revelation chapter 6. Very interesting. I've never heard of Texx Marrs, but I did find the following on him:"Very few Americans realize that the Federal Reserve is not a government agency and neither Congress or the president has one iota of control over it...the chilling truth is that the Federal Reserve, America's central bank, is simply one component of an interlocking international banking cartel that now controls the wealth of this planet." Texx Marrs, Millenium, pg 158. source (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/5612/quotes.html)and:I have followed Texx Marrs's newsletter for two years. Can anyone tell me someone he hasn't attacked as a Satanist... of course other than himself? (grin)
Dr. Douglas W. Schell
Professor of Business and Economics
source (http://www.supremelaw.org/sls/email/box065/msg06541.htm)and:Texx Marrs is nothing new...He came out in the early 70's with the regular screed about how the New Age Movement was actually a Satanist plot to take over the world. Patrick Malone
source (http://dev.null.org/psychoceramics/archives/1997.02/msg00020.html)and:Texx Marrs traveled around and wrote books warning churches to stay away from Star Wars, Indiana Jones and even Christian rock like Steve Taylor and Petra. Chris R.
source (http://junkyardblog.transfinitum.net/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=2162)Well, I'm honestly not sure what to think!!! :confused:

[Little Lamb]

Mr. Spookster says:

Personally I believe HE will return 2520 days after the treaty with many is signed (in Daniel).

I say:

You're guessing the day Jesus will return. He's not going to come when anyone expects Him to. And I believe the world will be in the tribulation during that time.

[Mr.Spookster]

Hello me again

As I said Mr. Marrs has some radical views on some of his opinions, and has probably caused some to not take him to seriously, which has in my opinion kept him alive to this point. I can assure you his books on his knowledge and research of the global elite who are attempting to force the world into a world government are monitored very closely. The sale of these books I suspect are monitored also. He is watched and monitored with more distain than the terrorist organization that have placed cells here in the U.S. by certain agencies which are controlled by the organizations he writes about.

Me again in your line of work, the placement of one of his books on your desk (use "Circle of Intrigue"because of it's cover) would cause a stir among any of your superiors whom belong to the Masonic orders. We have found throughout the U.S. membership of the local Masonic orders to include mayors, POLICE chiefs, the sheriffs, judges and many attorneys, along with members of your city councils, school boards, and police juries. Now your local orders are ground levels, bottom of the pyramid to say, but this is the foundation of the structured Masonic orders. You can go to ANY country in the world that has any structured type government and you will find a Masonic lodge in every community of every city in that country, it does NOT matter what form of government has authority in that country. You will find all the leaders of that government as members of a local Masonic lodge, just like here in the U.S. The orders all have the same philosophies, and are established in most countries. This will include democracies, republics, communist, socialist, and dictatorships. The form of government doesn't matter to them.

The Masonic orders are the base organization for all the other organization worldwide that are promoting and financing a world government. As a Christian one should see with the proper study a parallel between the goals of these organizations and what the bible says prophetically about the future of the earth and mankind. There will be a world government controlled by a future king, we know him as the anti-christ.

Does this mean every member of the Masonic order is a conspirator in this plot, no, many belong because of the local functions of the order to promote the well being of the community in which they live. The upper levels of the pyramid on the other hand, are plotting and planning a world government that will enslave mankind. The lower levels are kept in the dark of what the Great Plan of the Masonic order really is.

You will have to read and come to your on conclusion. The bible teaches of a world government set up by ten kings, and they give their power one man, the anti-christ. We see the framework for this happening every day here. The Masons are the base structure for the organizations that we believe are fulfilling the prophecies of Daniel and Revelations.

[cdhale]

Hello,
I was just wondering what evidence you have to support your claim that every government official in every country was a member of the Masons.

I would like to see such evidence, for my curiosity, if nothing else.

clint

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by cdhale
ok, ok

I just assumed you were from your prior posts. #1 You do believe the Lord will come to earth, setting up a kingdom based in Jerusalem from which He will reign for a literal 1000 years, whereupon Satan will lead one final attack, leading to his destruction and the great white throne judgment, don't you? At least that is what I have gathered in our conversations...

#2 forgive me if I am wrong.

I know there are others here who hold that theology.

so fire away ;)

clint
:think:
I assume this was in reply to my post just above it
ie:

:quote:
_______________________________________________
Originally posted by cdhale
Let me throw my 2 cents in before Buzz and the pre-mill faction take over...:D
________________________________________________


Define "Pre Mill" for me

:think:
but I think you got it right tho.

#1:
Buzz. Speaks

#2:
Pre Mill Babbels

:D

Buzz:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
:no:
#1
You do believe ------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
ect. ect. ect.


#2
forgive me if I am wrong. Your Forgiven,


God Bless Your "Bible" Studies;
Buzz

[cdhale]

Yes, Buzz, I was referring to your earlier post...

thanks for the forgiveness, I need as much as I can get. ;)

So if you are not Pre-Mill (as defined on the other post that discussed such things - forgive me for not repeating it as I am leaving in a little while for a trip to Finland, so don't have time), then would you explain what your particular beliefs are in eschatology?

I am just curious.

clint

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by cdhale
ok, ok

I just assumed you were from your prior posts. You do believe the Lord will come to earth, setting up a kingdom based in Jerusalem from which He will reign for a literal 1000 years,



There is a Group that think they are going to
set up a Kingdom that will rule:
and for a while it will appear they have suceeded:

:eek:
But they be wrong
~{Daniel 11:14}~
14 And in those times there shall many stand up
against the king of the south:
also the robbers of thy people shall
:no:
exalt themselves to establish the vision;
but they shall fall.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.


God Bless Your "Bible" Studies;
Buzz:

[Buzzard]

This is where we are At Today
ie:

---Da Question----
How Long Oh Lord
.
~{Rev.6:9}~
9 And when he had opened the
fifth seal
I saw under the altar the souls of them
that were slain for the word of God,
and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice,
saying,
How long, O Lord , holy and true,
dost thou not judge and avenge our blood
on them that dwell on the earth?
.
----Da Answer----11 And white robes were given unto every one of them;
and it was said unto them,
that they should rest
---{Remain in the Graves}---
see:
Too Many Jo-Jo's in the Church

http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3346#post3346

yet for a little season,
until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
that should be killed as they were,
should be fulfilled.


A Denial of and a Rejection of
The HouseTops Messages and the Call to come out her


http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286
~{Amos 1:1}~
The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa,
which he saw concerning Israel
in the days of Uzziah king of Judah,
and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel,
two years before the earthquake.


then shall be the opening of the 6th Seal


----- Next too Come -----



~{Rev.6:12}~

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,
and, lo,
.
---A Great Shaking----
there was a great earthquake;
and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,
and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,
when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;
and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
.
Now Notice Who Say These Things
And the kings of the earth,
and the great men,
and the rich men,
and the chief captains,
and the mighty men,
.
:::::Question:::::
:think:
Have you ever seen where these men listed were correct ?????
.

and every bondman, and every free man,
hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks,
Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him
that sitteth on the throne,
and from the wrath of the Lamb:
:doh:
They think; it is The 2nd coming of Christ
17 For the great day of his wrath is come;
and who shall be able to stand?
:doh:
They think; it is The 2nd coming of Christ
And the whole world
except a small group
will bow to him that comes in his own name
~{Jn 5:43}~
43 I am come in my Father’s name,
and ye receive me not:
if another shall come in his own name,
:devil:
him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe,
which receive honour one of another,
and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you,
even Moses, in whom ye trust.
.
----OH, NO;-----
:eek:
Moses and the Prophets
Again
46 For had ye believed Moses,
ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings,
:confused:
how shall ye believe my words?



The 6th Seal is the
“Beginning of Sorrows
” Christ Spake of here
~{Matt.24:7}~
7 For nation shall rise against nation,
and kingdom against kingdom:
and there shall be famines,
and pestilences, and earthquakes,
in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted,
and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake

It will be these events of the 6th Seal
that will usher in the Persecutions of the End Times
And with this will result in Religious Laws
To Bind men to an Ecclesiasticial Authority.
Somewhat similiar to the Papacy of the Past
~{Ps.94:20}~
20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee,
which frameth mischief by a law?
21 They gather themselves together
against the soul of the righteous,
and condemn the innocent blood.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
.

God Bless Your “Bible” Studies;
:eek:
Dat Babblin Buzzard Buzzin Again

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by cdhale


So if you are not Pre-Mill (as defined on the other post that discussed such things -

I am just curious.

clint

Did you mean these things
Theology Review Forums > SCHOOL OF THEOLOGY > Prophecy >
When is it ?

http://www.theologyreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135



Originally posted by Carl Smuda
.
Historical premillennial - the golden age of Messiah reigning as king on earth begins after tremendous cosmic upheavel.

Amillennial - i.e. realized millennium. The Church is realizing the millennium throughout her history and Christ returns on the last day for resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Postmillennial - Christ's church will ultimately triumph and be victorious over the whole earth. Then an extended period of Christian culture and rule. as small rebellion then the Christ returns on the last day for resurrection of the dead and the eternal judgment.

Dispensational premillennial - the Gathering together (aka Rapture) occurs and those left behind endure great tribulation and then Christ and His church do a second second coming but this time He reigns from Jerusalem on King David's throne and builds the world's first truly successful world government with the capital in Jerusalem.

[cdhale]

I was just asking your particular beliefs. If they happen to fall into one of the "traditional" beliefs, then it is easy to explain, you just say, "I am basically a pre-millenialist (or post- , a-, pan-)." If not, then I was asking exactly what you believe. This gives you the opportunity to explain in a positive manner what your convictions are, rather than having to critique the views of others.

go for it

:D
clint

[Buzzard]

Historical premillennial - the golden age of Messiah reigning as king on earth begins after tremendous cosmic upheavel.


Strong delusion

.
----- Next too Come -----
~{Rev.6:12}~

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,
and, lo,
.
---A Great Shaking----
there was a great earthquake;
and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,
and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,
when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;
and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
.
Now Notice Who Say These Things
And the kings of the earth,
and the great men,
and the rich men,
and the chief captains,
and the mighty men,
.
:::::Question:::::
:think:
Have you ever seen where these men listed were correct ?????
.

and every bondman, and every free man,
hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks,
Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him
that sitteth on the throne,
and from the wrath of the Lamb:
:doh:
They think; it is The 2nd coming of Christ
17 For the great day of his wrath is come;
and who shall be able to stand?
:doh:
They think; it is The 2nd coming of Christ

actually they think it is
God's Judgement upon an evil world,
and it is up too the Christian Church to stamp out evil,
and to prepare to usher in the expected kingdom rule

and then

And the whole world
except a small group
will bow to him that comes in his own name
~{Jn 5:43}~
43 I am come in my Father’s name,
and ye receive me not:
if another shall come in his own name,
:devil:
him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe,
which receive honour one of another,
and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you,
even Moses, in whom ye trust.
.
----OH, NO;-----
:eek:
Thars Dat;
Moses and the Prophets
"""Again""""
46 For had ye believed Moses,
ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings,
:confused:
how shall ye believe my words?




The 6th Seal is the
“Beginning of Sorrows
” Christ Spake of here
~{Matt.24:7}~
7 For nation shall rise against nation,
and kingdom against kingdom:
and there shall be famines,
and pestilences, and earthquakes,
in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted,
and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake

It will be these events of the 6th Seal
that will usher in the Persecutions of the End Times
And with this will result in Religious Laws
----Ecumenicalism---
To Bind men to an Ecclesiasticial Authority.
Somewhat similiar to the Papacy of the Past
----The results of Ecumenicalism---~{Ps.94:20}~
20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee,
which frameth mischief by a law?
21 They gather themselves together
against the soul of the righteous,
and condemn the innocent blood.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

and from this will come The Laodicean Church.
which will continue a Short Space

Da Way they get rich
~{Daniel 11:20}~
20 Then shall stand up in his estate
a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom:
but within few days he shall be destroyed,
neither in anger, nor in battle.

.
They will even do as the Early Day Church did
Divide the Land for Gain = into different Bishoprics
ect. - ect. - ect.
~{Daniel 11:39}~
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god,
whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory:
and he shall cause them to rule over many,
and shall divide the land for gain.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
.
.

God Bless Your “Bible” Studies;
Buzz:

[Buzzard]

Some where during this Time of perlexity
will come
"The Fake Mary" of the Catholic Church
too prepare the world to receive her son;

and when this guy comes
:devil:

she will turn to him and say
"Behold, My Son Jesus, do as he saith"

the whole world
except a small group
will bow to him that comes in his own name
~{Jn 5:43}~
43 I am come in my Father’s name,
and ye receive me not:
if another shall come in his own name,
:devil:
him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe,
which receive honour one of another,
and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you,
even Moses, in whom ye trust.
.
----OH, NO;-----
:eek:
Thars Dat;
Moses and the Prophets
"""Again""""
46 For had ye believed Moses,
ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings,
:confused:
how shall ye believe my words?



The Earthquake of ~{Rev.6:12}~ could come any day:

The way they will inforce the Mark of the Beast

Food
If you don't work to build the kingdom
Yas don't eat
~{Matt.25:32}~
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying,
Lord, when saw we thee an hungred,
or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison,
and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these,
ye did it not to me.
6 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.



God Bless Your "Bible" Studies;
Buzz:

[cdhale]

OK, Buzz,
thats all fine and dandy:rolleyes:

now how about giving us a concise statement about what you believe. It shouldn't be too hard.

thanks,
clint